Curse

Scorpion Boy · Sep 03, 2005, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Hey

I tryed Thunderhead for several times with my N/Me and we just keep failing even with the best party's ever we just keep failing it. I only made it with my warrior after exactly 37 tryes. I hope more ppl think the same about thunderhead as me so we can work out a plan or let Anet do something about it.

Greetz boy

A.M.P · Sep 03, 2005, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Hey,
I tried the Thunderhead Keep mission 3 or 4 times, with my R/Mo
it's all about team work, you have to get rangers at the ballista, and let no1 in the keep...
And keep an eye on the king, maybe keep a monk near him....

You just need long ranged players, Warriors, and monks...
That's all I can say lol... It worked for me

Lasareth · Sep 03, 2005, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Bring domination skills such as diversion and arcane thievery. The only real issue is keeping Jalis alive. Impossible ? No.. I just did it today with all henchmen, then again with another PC and henchmen.

Should they change the mission? Yes.

Why? After a while, the siege on the keep becomes tedium. I counted at least 15 minutes where I was killing Mursaat or Mantle in simple pairs that kept coming and coming, each 2 minutes apart from the next (more than enough time to recoup). I was late for class, so I just let the damn thing run with henchmen while I went afk. When I came back, I had won the mission.

So, since 7 henchmen can do it, why does Anet insist on stuffing it down our throats for 30 mins? God, we know there's a siege. We can take on a Mursaat ok? After the first wave and boss, does there REALLY have to be 20 more minutes of the same thing?

Gah...

Kampfkeks · Sep 03, 2005, 09:07 AM // 09:07

A single Healing Seed or another spell of that kind will keep the King alive. Healing Seed seems to counter Spectral Agony quite well. But that is probably not the point. I've done the mission for quite some times and completed it in 80% of those times.

And besides agreeing with Lasareth that the Siege gets boring real fast (seriously... after you've defended the first few waves you get enough of time to organize a small dance party with the typical wa/mo screwing the synchro...).

The key to this mission is to be prepared for the siege and you need to be real picky about your team. When i'm there to help a friend i allways insist on forming the party and while doing so following some simple things i figured out while forming partys real often and seeing which of those succeed and which fail.

First off
You don't need more than 2 semi-decent monks for the mission. More is just a waste and a real lack in firepower too. Don't worry if you can't find the monks yet, they'll be flowing in real soon.

Here is the list of classes if found exceptionally useful in this mission and what skills they brought:

A Trapper (don't care if the ranger is a primary or secondary trapper, as long as he doesn't have warrior as his primary {due to the low energy})
A Hydromancer or a Geomancer. Why those two? Snares. A well placed ward against foe really helps a lot in this mission. Same goes to the Hydromancer spamming snare spells and especially maelstroem.
A Mesmer or a necromancer. When taking a necromancer just be sure you didn't get your typical lousy played Minionmaster (don't get me wrong, minionmasters can be useful now and then, but they often screw your teams positioning). Take also precautions to not get an IW Mesmer (once again, IW Mesmers can be great but most are lousy and they are chewing on your monk's energy like a mad person anyways)

Notice how those are mostly classes and Attribute Lines your average Guildwars "Ownzorizer" regards as being noob. By taking them in you've therefore achieved three things. First off, they work as a ward against noobs (not referring to that guild, gnarr :P). As you're bound to have those noobs moan about those classes. Take no hesistation to kick them out if they do. Even if it is like the only playermonk around. Second, they are a great contribution to your team. They really are, just make sure they do their job. But don't tell them how do it. They'll know best. Third off, by publically declaring you're taking those classes in you tend to attract the better players.

So start forming your team by announcing something along the lines of:

Looking for: 1 Ranger (Trapper), 1 Hydro or Geomancer (Snares), 1 Mesmer or Necromancer. Whisper me

The last part is probably the most important part about forming a group for Thunderhead Keep. Insist on that last passage. Let NO ONE in who did not whisper you. This is to make sure they know how to use the chat and they don't have it turned off alltogether. Communication is really important in that mission as well as having a plan. So once again to outline it some more, take no one in who didn't whisper you. This is also usefull to sort out asshats. You'll mostly notice by their name and their choice of words. If you're not sure just pretend to be busy (you'll probably be anyways) and let him or her wait a minute. That is not the nicest way but it is a good way to see if they have a bit of patience. If they start flaming - just ignore them alltogether. If they patiently wait a bit, just whisper them with a sorry and an explanation about being busy.

After you've had some stress and searching your team is now filled with like ~5 spots of people who know a bit of patience, are happy they have been taken into the team and are most probably chatting around and getting to know each other. If they are not, make sure they are by bringing up a topic or stuff like that. If you can get them to like each other, great thing

Once you've set up your team this way you'll notice how suddenly you attract the interest of monks. Speak to them, whisper them (they are somewhat special in most cases) and chat a bit with them. If they refuse to chat, no loss. If they insist on a third monk. Refuse, no loss.
Try getting two warriors or you'll probably have to have the Geomancer tank (they can do quite well i might add).

Once your team is full, don't go in just yet. Explain the plan to your team. Make sure everyone knows his place. Man the catapults and tell your team the trapper will save its ass by trapping the doors and some other random chokepoints. And make sure no one but the monks speak to the king in the first part.

Well after that, the mission is a piece of cake and really pleasant to do, except for the fact the siege tends to get boring real fast. If you didn't figure out: Have the Ranger trap the Doors. Have your ranged fighters man the catapults AND work as a scout as to from which direction the enemys are coming. Have your snaremasters put up some ward against foes or deep freeze them. This makes sure none of the mursaat or Jades break through (the AI stops with their current action when they get snared and attack their nearest target).
After you've cleared a wave head back into the middle (about the place you killed Stonepate). Rinse and repeat. Done.

Scorpion Boy · Sep 03, 2005, 09:09 AM // 09:09

I just tryed it again and lost again im rly thinking about quiting GW now they change a monk build and then keep this mission so hard let them do something about this mission i think lots a ppl get stuck here...

UltimaXtreme · Sep 03, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

this missions easy as hell, find a good monk before doing this. just make sure you got a good full heal monk, no hybrid / half smiting crap.

at the end have 3 1 monk at east, 1 monk on west, and have mhenlo stay neutral. rangers, necros, eles on the catapult. 1 on each, and stay there.

and: always bring mhenlo for this mission

Kampfkeks · Sep 03, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

That is just funny as you'll never really need more than 2 monks in PVE. No matter where you are, 2 are just enough. The more monks you bring, the less efficient they are. They'll double and triple heal a party member and the lack of one damage-dealer/interrupter/whatever is seriously weakening your team. To be honest, besides thinking more than 2 monks EVER (PVE) is overkill, having more than 2 is cutting down your damage that much that you can't finish of the waves fast enough and will be slowly but steadily fighting a battle with dwindling resources. And trust me, i'm playing a monk with challenges up to completing Hells Precipice as the only monk on the team.
The only reason to bring two monks is to have a full specced healer and a full specced protector. Bringing one more is cutting down the efficiency of either the healer or protector. If you don't stand fighting with just two monks bring a necromancer. Have him specced on blood and woooosh, your two monks will work as if they were 10 monks without clobbering up party space (Blood is Power, Well of Blood and stuff like that...).

Massassi · Sep 03, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I beat it with henchies my fifth time and never had to change my tactics.
3 from the left door and 3 from the right door over and over for like 1/2 an hour, WTF kind of seige is that any way?
"Alright men, there are eight humans in there. We outnumber them about 300 to 1 and the man we realy want to kill is standing in the open ontop of a wall, perfect target for long range assault. So, lets all proceed inside in groups of three serperated by two minute intervals."
"Sir,yes,Sir!"
"Hey, slow down! Walk don't run!"

Lampshade · Sep 03, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

It took me 6 times but I finally di

Seissor · Sep 04, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

A: Balance your team Ive done this mission easily with a person quitting each time.
1 ranger
2 monks
1 ele
1 necro
3 warriors

Early on while defending the keeps have 3 teams, 2 small ones manning ballistas and a 3rd running back and forth between the two. eliminate the 1st wave and fall back to the staircase near the king

hold the staircase with some ppl operating ballistas, only fight on the staircase not at the gates.

this way your necros well of blood is concentrated, your monks can heal you and the king your ele can be more useful and your ranger can trap chokepoints easier....also if you all die near each other......use that little light of dwayna spell.

Iere · Sep 04, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Did it my first time. Bring two monks, one for each side. Keep the groups together.

When time comes, split into parties. At least one warrior, elementalist, and monk on each.

It's really not hard at all. o.o

One and Two · Sep 04, 2005, 02:43 AM // 02:43

seriously, bring henchies. and stay next to the king. henchies are idiots. but in this case, better that pugs.

Big Luke · Sep 04, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

I was stuck on this mission for a few days with my warrior, then I joined my Guild and passsed it first try with them, so I think teamwork really realy helps, and PUGs don't always play nice.

Iere · Sep 04, 2005, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Luke

I was stuck on this mission for a few days with my warrior, then I joined my Guild and passsed it first try with them, so I think teamwork really realy helps, and PUGs don't always play nice.

But sometimes you get a *really good* PUG that gets you through the mission first try.

It just takes a lot of slogging through crap.

And, honestly, it's been like that for the latter half of the game (for me). For the first four tries or so, I get a horribly disorganized team and then I get a team that somehow works brilliantly together.

So really, I don't think it's a problem with the mission... although I agree about the length. It's probably the fact that it's pretty difficult to find a PUG that really works well together.

I might also add that sometimes the more fun PUGs are not the ones who complete the mission flawlessly. <3

Big Luke · Sep 04, 2005, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Ya, I do agree with that. Truth be told I got lucky with the last 3 ‘Ring of Fire’ missions, I somehow got in with 3 really good PUG teams, I see it as pay off for hacking away at Thunderhead Keep for too long.

But, just like in the real world it only takes a few to give the large majority a bad name.

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Sep 04, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I laughed when I did this mission my first time. All of the horror stories I had from monks not completing it, all of the PO'd warriors who can't find a decent group for it...and I was playing a ranger.
First group, simple success. How? No, not 3 monks 3 eles and 2 warriors as I see in most groups looking to complete this mission.
Our group:
3 rangers: Two trappers (all with Barrage, very important), and me, using heals and barrage for dps. Rangers also using Judges Insight for holy damage on arrows.
2 warriors: Do what they do, simple tanks holding off the baddies while we spam arrows.
Lina and Mhenlo: Dumb mercs, but they are predictable. If they run in and die, it is probably your fault.
1 person who left because they saw 3 rangers when we zoned in (probably a monk, I don't remember)

Group goes like this...
I talked to King, and hang back while group moves up clustering mobs for barrage damage. Spam heals when warriors need them, heal King when he decides to fight. Kept Rebirth up, which is a teamsaver.

Move around the encampment clockwise, take out mobs easily by taking healers out first (you knew that right?) and spamming barrage. Easy.
Move into the keep, and take out mobs moving counter-clockwise. Easy.
Run to named leader guy, kill him, and wait for the siege.
If anything got hairy, I simply sat back to prevent the king from playing Leeroy and screwing the mission for all of us. Rebirth = god.

Now the assault, which was pathetic at best. Rangers trap each door, wait in middle to attack doors when mobs show. I think we had one person on cats, as it was not necessary to spam them the whole fight. Others may disagree, so let them.

Simply keep the group healed, and CALL TARGETS. It is not that hard, warriors, as this helps in taking down targets fast. Communication is key, and is why most people fail. Most groups, to my knowledge, fail this mission and display their communication skills when they search for a scapegoat. This is why people fail this mission.

Simply keep attacking the mobs moving up, and keep a barbed trap at each door to snare anything that sneaks up. Call targets, bunch up, barrage and it is simple.

This mission is "hard" because people do not communicate, or the leader does not know how to lead. Have one person dictate orders, not 3. Two different arrows on a map only slows down the fight and gets you killed.

Kai Nui · Sep 04, 2005, 04:28 AM // 04:28

People try to put 4 people at each door when you just have to stand right near the king with all 8. Bonus is the easiest in the game aswell. I did this mission with all henchmen and did bonus on my first attempt. With people I'd fail every time.

I actually like this mission because it's like hazing. It helps to filter out the stupid people.

Lil Cooter · Sep 04, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I don't think that A-net should do anything about Tunderhead Keep mission. And yes out of 40+ tries I have been lucky enough to find 3 good groups to win with. 3 outta 40+ not bad. When you finally get to fire island chain, you will start to understand that Thunderhead Keep is a way to weed out noobs. I hate that word by the way. The mission are so much more difficult in fire islands, yet so much easier because most peeps know what they are doing. I really appreciate having Thunderhead, esp. since I have seen lvl 16s try to do Thunderhead.

One and Two · Sep 04, 2005, 05:33 AM // 05:33

keep thunderhead keep the way it is please.

Druids Arrow · Sep 04, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

I did thunderhead keep in my first try as a R/Me as I lucked out with an excellent PUG.

Important thing is to have 3 monks. Yes 3. Have one monk constantly focus on keeping the king alive and then have the other two doing the regular healing/protecting. The reason we did so well against the Mursaat was we stayed by the King and had two people man the catapults. When the Mursaat came through all grouped by the King and held them off. Actually I found Thunderhead Keep quite easy, just stick together and have follow the called target.